Thanks for posting the banners!

[ivyblossom]

I'm really enjoying the fact that people are posting this banner. Also, this one. Makes it easy to see who to defriend and who to avoid.

Yeah, sure, you can believe whatever you want, but thankfully livejournal technology makes it so I don't have to read about it.

I don't believe in Jesus, but you don't see me posting anti-Jesus banners around Easter. You don't see us non-Christians out there with banners on the 24th of December, protesting all this hegemonic celebration of the birth of Jesus. No, because that would be rude. The fact that people in a slash community would be compelled to speak up about their opposition to gay marriage is somewhere between fucking hilariously hypocritical and completely nonsensical.

"But, OMG, my religion doesn't allow that!" SO DON'T FUCKING DO IT. What your religion allows has no fucking bearing on the rest of the universe, and at some point I hope to God people will get a grip on that. North Americans, Europeans, we don't live in theocracies. Go to a church or a synagogue that doesn't perform gay marriages, don't attend gay marriages, I don't give a shit. But if you have a compelling reason why you think gay people should have fewer civil rights than you have, go ahead and say it as far away from me as possible, because I'm not interested in the least little way.

I wasn't going to post this thing, since, you know, everyone is posting it and to me it's a given, but I wouldn't want anyone to think I believed otherwise.

Gay people deserve the same rights straight people have.

Comments

[bethos.livejournal.com]

Right on. I wish people would stop trying to inflict their religious values on other people, because it's just such bullshit.

Re:

[nmalfoy.livejournal.com]

You're so right. Worked out well for the Taliban, didn't it?

[dejaspirit.livejournal.com]

Word.

[shezan.livejournal.com]

Clever conservative op-ed in favour of gay marriage, here (http://www1.law.ucla.edu/~williamsproj/Ideas/power.html).

Re:

[ashkitty.livejournal.com]

That's great, thanks for linking it. :)

[race-carrigan.livejournal.com]

"But, OMG, my religion doesn't allow that!" SO DON'T FUCKING DO IT.
GOD. YES. That is such a good point, you know, because people ALL THE TIME try to impose their views on others. Religion is supposed to be a very personal thing, and I wish some people would keep it to themselves!

Thank you for posting all that, it's great that there are so many who support gays on LJ. In truth, I haven't seen any of the first ones, so I'm happy.

[chickadilly.livejournal.com]

To quote msscribe: Word.

*comes out of lurkdom*

[pyrplerose.livejournal.com]

What your religion allows has no fucking bearing on the rest of the universe...

THANK YOU! I get so tired of hearing this argument of "but Christianity doesn't allow it". I really wonder if people will ever figure out that 1) there is more than one religion in this world and 2) people have free will to make their own decisions.

I have to say, though, this is probably the best banner I saw:

Re: *comes out of lurkdom*

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

Well, several Christian denominations DO allow it, and I don't get why people keep forgetting that little nugget of truth. The case here in Canada was pushed into the courts because the United Church married several gay couples who weren't allowed to get marriage licences. In that case, the government was required to conform to what the church wanted to do.

Thanks for the banner. :)

[mhw.livejournal.com]

I went and had a look at dear shocksrage's page, and I really liked the post where, having said how loathsomely commercial Christmas is, he then went on to gloat about all the goodies he got, and asking what he should do with his leftover money.

You know, I so felt like dropping him a little comment there, saying How about Luke 12:33, Matthew 19:21, Mark 10:21, Luke 18:22, and Luke 12:34?

I just didn't think he'd get the point, somehow.

[sio.livejournal.com]

it's ppl like that that make true Christians who follow Jesus' edict of "love your neighbor" look bad. did Jesus say "love only your STRAIGHT neighbor"?? did He say "hate your gay neighbor"?? NO!

i swear it pisses me OFF. >.<

Re:

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

Word.

[silentblast.livejournal.com]

[rant]
Last year we were having a discussion on GBLT rights during English, and it turned out that only a small number of us actually believed in gay marriage. Reasons opposing it were as follows:

1. Because's it's against my religion.
2. Because it's wrong.
3. Because it's biologically wrong.
4. Because it's wrong.
5. Because men and women fit together.

I think you get the point.

I had to point out to the class that several major studies in animal behaviour show that even animals like giraffes have recorded instances of seemingly 'wrong' behaviour. Also, apparently some of them never knew that different eras in history actually approved of same-sex relations, and were appalled at Plato's suggestion that an army made up of lovers and beloveds would be stronger because of the emotional bond.

Thank God my English teacher's brother is gay. If not I would have exploded all over the class with exasperation. GAY PEOPLE ARE STILL PEOPLE.
[/rant] (sorry for longish comment)

Re:

[(Anonymous)]

I still have a little speck of hope in my mind that if I sat down with a calm, eloquent opposer of gay marriage they could give a reasonable explanation for their stance and assert the sanity of that significant percentage of the community.

Now I'm starting to think that a)calm, eloquent opposer of gay marriage don't exhist and b) they don't have a leg to stand on. So I think I'll just label them as illogical and homophobic and avoid any conversations with them.

[the-pantheon.livejournal.com]

Dear Ivyblossom,

I'm sorry about those asshats. They weren't supposed to turn out that way. As I told msscribe earlier they were supposed to provide a source of entertainment like whack-a-mole.

Love does not know color or gender or age. And I wish people would stop saying that what they are doing in my name to justify their own small minded agenda. It is really pissing me off.

It is okay if you don't believe in me. I love you anyway. And I love the boysmut you write. Love it.

Love,
God

Re:

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

Thank you, God!

I do believe in you, though. I mean, after that chat we had a few years ago, how could I not? I'm glad you're on our side. :)

[pinkfinity.livejournal.com]

But *my* religion does allow it!

Re:

[nmalfoy.livejournal.com]

Your religion also says that we should enjoy the good things in life. What a great religion, albeit one that I know very little about.

[shewalksonroses.livejournal.com]

But if you have a compelling reason why you think gay people should have fewer civil rights than you have, go ahead and say it as far away from me as possible, because I'm not interested in the least little way.

I think this is my quote of the day. Thanks for saying everything I'm thinking, only in much more coherent terms. :D

[sinisteral.livejournal.com]

True, people have rights and should have some fucking manners.

You Adina's tired when...

[adinasauce.livejournal.com]

For a very brief second, I thought you were saying the complete opposite of what you were saying. You know, that you agreed with people posting them.

Then I blinked, and re-read the first paragraph.

I then slapped myself, and wondered for a moment how I got into college.

...*shifty eyes*..

Short, to the point, and SO TRUE.

[akatonbo.livejournal.com]

Definitive proof that slash really isn't about homosexuality, let alone gayness. -.-

(Which I in fact think is true -- it's very rarely got anything to do with even the attempt to write about homosexual or gay (different things) characters, even less frequently anything to do with authentic queerness, and frankly I don't think it should, because there are so many fandoms in which a 21st century (and often rather American) sense of 'gay' makes no sense at all. But you'd think it might at least make people think a little bit.)

Still, there are far too many sheltered, unthinking twits in fandom, including slash fandom. The great wide internet has not genuinely made them more open to the idea that other people have different views from theirs and may have them for a reason, and that goes for all kinds of things. Some of them are probably older people who aren't mature enough to adjust their way of thinking after so long and are stubbornly clinging to outdated views that were commonplace when they were growing up. Others are probably children (and since I'm an old fogey who had a birthday yesterday I reserve the right to call anyone under the age of 23 and anyone else I feel like a child) who haven't grown up enough to question what they were taught. (I can't think of any excuse even as good as those lousy ones for those who are old enough /and/ young enough that they should know better.)

Re:

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

I agree with you that slash has nothing to do with real life gay people, and the gay movement in general. I've felt that since the beginning, though sometimes it's hard to ferret it out. So many people involved in slash fandom are legitimately pro-gay that it's easy to forget not everyone is.

For me at this point, with this post, I don't even know how to wade into the fandom vs. real life argument. I just don't associate with anti-gay people at all, ever. I will defriend people on livejournal and I will stop speaking to people in real life over it as well. It's just my breaking point. I don't see any reason to subject myself to that. I'm not an educator, I'm not an example.

I'd love to know about the difference between 'gay' and 'homosexual' though.

And you know, I have no idea what authentic queerness is. Maybe that's part of the problem with the distinction between the way it's handled in the fanfiction world and the way it's dealt without side. Some people do relate it back to their own experiences or perceptions, and some people really don't.

I'm really not awake at all and shouldn't be trying to make any sense.

[theebee.livejournal.com]

I go to Trent, and that's supposedly Ontario's most "gay friendly" university, but when this topic came up in one of my women's studies lectures, the number of people opposed to same-sex marriage in that room alone was staggering. I couldn't believe how many people were completely unwilling to even think of gay marriage as an option. It is things like this that can really make you take a step back and take another look at someone you always thought was open-minded or even rational. I've been writing my major paper for that class on this very topic, actually.

Re:

[decayingdoll.livejournal.com]

when this topic came up in one of my women's studies lectures, the number of people opposed to same-sex marriage in that room alone was staggering.

Seriously? 0_0 I'm planning to major in that course when I go to uni. I thought most people who'd take the course are feminists and feminists are pro-gay marriage. I guess I jumped into comclusions too fast. :(

[larks.livejournal.com]

I am agnostic. However that being said, it's times like these where it's no wonder why people turn their back on religion as a whole.

Re:

[nmalfoy.livejournal.com]

I myself have no use for religion (at least not of the organized variety) for the exact same reason you've listed. It's too often used as a tool to oppress people and define them as sub-human.

[lagreyeyes.livejournal.com]

Gay or straight, same rights for all. Absolutely. Hurrah, San Francisco!!

[katrionaa.livejournal.com]

I don't know why so many people feel the need to try to legislate other peoples' lives. Really it's quite offensive. I'm looking forward to the days when gay marriage will be what interracial marriage has become - just another way people show their love and commitment.

[epistretes.livejournal.com]

I keep seeing these "marriage is a privelidge not a right" banners - sad to say Ive fallen out with a couple ppl over it and thinned my friends list. When I asked "So straight ppl are allowed privelidges but gays arent?" they just ranted about religion and stuff.
Sad that we're living in such a bigoted world.

Re:

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

do we ever.

*rubs noses*

[frozen-jelly.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

[davek.livejournal.com]

Yeah, sure, you can believe whatever you want, but thankfully livejournal technology makes it so I don't have to read about it.

And yet you yourself expect people to be tolerant of your views, and to respect them and to give them the time of day, when you're unwilling to do that for others?

Seems a little hypocritical to me.

And before you jump down my throat, my official stance is "I don't care, because no one of either sex would ever marry me anyway."

In your attempt to show support and to be tolerant of everyone, you're being completely closed minded to the other side of the argument. To think that you'd defriend someone, just because their views differed from yours, is rather frightening.

Way to be.

Re:

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

And yet you yourself expect people to be tolerant of your views, and to respect them and to give them the time of day, when you're unwilling to do that for others?

Excuse me, you've mistaken me for a neutral party. I'm a lesbian who believes in gay rights. I'm not shutting down anyone's lj, or telling people they can't post. I'm just not going to read it. Is there something else you wanted from tolerance? Did I flame someone? Did I tell them to shut up? Did I tell them they had no right post?

Are you saying I should be forced to read the views of people who think I don't deserve the same rights they have themselves?

In your attempt to show support and to be tolerant of everyone, you're being completely closed minded to the other side of the argument

At what point did I say I would show support and be tolerant of everyone? I try to avoid being rude. I'm not in support of everyone. I will unfriend racists, homophobes, and a misogynists, too. We all have our limits, and those are mine. Yeah, I'm closed-minded about those things. This isn't a problem for me.

To think that you'd defriend someone, just because their views differed from yours, is rather frightening.

Yeah, it's terrifying that a lesbian would defriend people who think gay people don't deserve full civil rights. Wow, could it possibly be that I don't want to be friendly with people like that? Shocking! And my God, we all know defriending is akin to the electric chair, after all. The inhumanity of it! *staples hand to forehead* How could I be so cruel as to deprive someone of my erudite musings? It's tough, I tell you.

At which point did I stop being allowed to define my own friends list?

[switchknife.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you for pointing that out. I have gone and ranted (http://www.livejournal.com/users/shocksrage/9243.html?view=24603#t24603) as required.

Re:

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

Excellent. :) Ranting is good fun. I so rarely have temper tantrums myself, it's sort of an exorcism when it happens. Ah well. It's nice that I can just unfriend the people who annoy me then go on with my day.

[angelmecha.livejournal.com]

Cheers, Ivy!

[nmalfoy.livejournal.com]

We let religion start dictating state policy and we'll be no better than the Taliban. Ironic, isn't it, that Bush is so anti-Taliban and yet he's leading us right down the same path.

Re:

[lizardlaugh.livejournal.com]

WORD!

I think some folks need to read up on that little document, what's it called again? Oh yeah, the US Constitution.

Amendment I:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment XIV:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.