Orson Scott Card

[ivyblossom]

I used to really admire Orson Scott Card. I wanted to get all his books and read them all, one by one. Now, not so much. Oh well. Not as if there aren't hundreds of other good writers I could be reading instead.

Comments

[chrismm.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I got that years ago, when in the intro to a compilation, he said the reason gays were so depressed was because they had no way to contribute to the community.

It's especially hard, because he's so good at writing relationships and community, so to hear him say that I couldn't be in those amazing communities, and had nothing to contribute, really hurt.

That was over ten years ago. I must admit, I still read his books (after a long hiatus to get to feel better), though I get them from the library, I don't buy them. And I don't look forward to them with the same joy.

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

Wow. I mean, I guess I'm not surprised from his upbringing that he's against gay marriage, but wow. Okay, I guess I am surprised. I mean, I read his books and they really made me think. I guess I'm surprised that he would hold such an thoughtless belief like that. I've always considered people who believe gay marriage to be wrong as willfully obtuse.

Just, agh. He used to be my favorite author. Now I don't know what to think.

[meacoustic.livejournal.com]

That essay is simply horrifying.

[emony.livejournal.com]

That's so depressing :( It's never good when you realise that the people you admire or like are actually jerks. It'll colour your perspective on everything he's written too, now you know. *sigh*

[pyrplerose.livejournal.com]

wow. Just...yeah. I'm not sure what to say after reading that. I won't be reading his books for a long, long time, if ever. I don't think I'll ever be able to even look at his books without remembering that article. It's a shame, too. I really love his books.

I do have to wonder, though, what each of my parents contributed to society with their three marriages...except for one non heterosexual child, I mean.

[moonlight69]

Yeah. I read that a few days ago (okay, I read about the first third of it, that was all I could stomach) and nearly cried. Ender's Game is my favourite book of all time, and I can no longer in good conscience recommend it to friends, because I cannot support this man.

And you know, perhaps this is just sour grapes because of where I live (Salt Lake City), but the whole time I was reading, all I could think was "my God, this man is SO Mormon." :P

[sileas.livejournal.com]

I love reading his books and his columns, but that column makes me want to stop reading his books or writings. I certainly won't read his books with as much joy as I used to.

[mlle-skeetre.livejournal.com]

Took a class from the man, and have to say that I've never met someone so in love with his own voice/opinions.

Also, um. More for the benefit of others who might happen past this comment: not all Mormons feel the same way about gay marriage as OSC does.

Anyway, yes, he's a tool.

[shezan.livejournal.com]

You know, that you agree or not with a writer has unfortunately no bearing on hir talent. I admire the books of Louis-Ferdinand Céline, but would have voted for him to be shot in 1945 without hesitation.

That being said, I am nevertheless amused because Card is the author of the most transparent bit of near-homosexual pedophilia (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312876629/qid=1077885713/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-5731259-1348633?v=glance&s=books) (we'd call it "chan") I read in a long while. Not a bad book, mind you

[sileas.livejournal.com]

*heee* I read that book too. And utterly glad there was a bit of chan in it although no actual sex happens on screen. Beautiful book. I cried a lot.

[longtimegone]

That article made me nauseous. It really didn't even make me angry, so much as just sad and sickened. He said he has gay friends? Well I bet he didn't after they read that article. The ideas he spouted were offensive and just outright disgusting.

[bethos.livejournal.com]

Yeah ... it's hard to keep hold of your respect for people's work when you find out that in real life they're just assholes.

[go-back-chief.livejournal.com]

I.Have.No.Words.

Honestly, I really don't.
I could't even bring myself to read the entire article. Maybe tomorrow.
Then again, maybe not.

When I got to the part where he said that "homosexuals weren't deprived of marriage, as long as they married someone from the opposite gender, I just laughed." And then he told me that my life apparently will have no meaning unless I get children. Thanks a bunch. And then I got to the divorce part. And I just couldn't bring myself to read further.

[manzai.livejournal.com]

*sigh* I skimmed the article, figuring that it was going to turn out the way it did. It just astonishes me that people claim to be civilized yet have these incredibly twisted beliefs regarding how society "should" be.

[darkflame173.livejournal.com]

I will never read his works. I had expressed a little interest before, but none now. I refuse to believe that my only purpose in being married is to be a breeder for more babies to overpopulate this planet further than it already is. My marriage is just fine without children, thank you very much. And I certainly don't feel threatened by the fact that gays would like to enjoy their rights to marriage as well.
I am simply disgusted by this essay.

(o_O)

[(Anonymous)]

Can someone please explain to me how the emotional bond between a homosexual couple is any different from that of a heterosexual couple? I'm confused.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I do have every one of his books. And I'll buy "The Crystal City," which is just out, and read that too. And I'll keep avoiding every bit of non-fiction the man writes, because I know it'll infuriate me to think he can write such terrific fiction and be such a blinkingly bigoted religious fanatic at the same time. Fume.

Good thing I've never wanted to write fanfiction in his universes. He hates that too. Heh.

(And believe me, I understand those people who say they won't read his fiction because of his bigotry. My dad refused to listen to Wagner. So.)

[mark356.livejournal.com]

*thumbs up*

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

So, you're...okay with me readin' his stuff? Even if he's bigoted? 'Cuz some friends I have are not at all happy that I can overlook his bigotry and enjoy his fiction.

[mark356.livejournal.com]

Yes! Absolutely! I was as saddened as anyone else who read the article, but it's my thought that the rampant "OMG OSC is EVIL and I will never touch his slimy name ever again!!1!" vibe that's been going around is a) overreacting b) has nothing to do with the quality of his writing and c) has nothing to do with advocating same-sex marriage, either. Your viewpoint on it seems to be one of the most mature and thought-out positions I've seen, and my reply appeared as it did because I wanted to express gratitute to your viewpoint without spelling it out so much in a such an apparant hotbed of OSC hate, and because I adore the Akira avatar, scowly as it may be. : )

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

You are very kind! I ain't happy with the guy's positions, to say the least, but I can't deny the appeal of his fiction, either. Thank you for the supportive words!

[maruchina.livejournal.com]

... o_O. Would say more, but... o_O.

Another one...

[anevilweasel.livejournal.com]

to pass through the bowels of a lion once I've become Emperor. Sadly his writing is wonderful. Even our Heros and Mentors have faults that make them igits.

[phoenixw.livejournal.com]

Card is one of those people who really test my theory that extremely bright people can't be socially/politically conservative. I don't understand it at all.

And it's disappointing, yes. He's written some very good stuff on the art and craft of writing, as well as some very enjoyable fiction. But for his opinions, well, bugger that.

[ueblay.livejournal.com]

[moonlight69]

Yeah. I read that a few days ago (okay, I read about the first third of it, that was all I could stomach) and nearly cried. Ender's Game is my favourite book of all time, and I can no longer in good conscience recommend it to friends, because I cannot support this man.

And you know, perhaps this is just sour grapes because of where I live (Salt Lake City), but the whole time I was reading, all I could think was "my God, this man is SO Mormon." :P

[thereallyle.livejournal.com]

I agree with the person who said not all mormons think like that. My *girlfriend* is a mormon, and I'm not a guy... Despite my masculine pseudonym.

Cheers!
Lyle

[thereallyle.livejournal.com]

Huh. Maybe you should just steal his books instead of buying them...

Heh.

J/K! Because then the bookstores wouldn't get the money.

[jacay.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the part where he said gays have rights if they marry someone of the opposite gender and then had to stop is pretty appalling. I don't let authors' political ideas color my opinions of their fiction, but even so, reading this makes me want to stop reading his books. And wow, this paragraph:

"The dark secret of homosexual society -- the one that dares not speak its name -- is how many homosexuals first entered into that world through a disturbing seduction or rape or molestation or abuse, and how many of them yearn to get out of the homosexual community and live normally."

*cough* So this straight man would know how many gays were raped/molested/seduced/abused and how they are yearning to get out, even though it's a dark secret of homosexual society? Fascinating.

[hiddenw.livejournal.com]

That quote hit me the hardest. What year is it? People still believe this crap?

[ursulakohl.livejournal.com]

I decided Orson Scott Card was really weird about women and I wouldn't go out of my way to find more of his books . . . in ninth or tenth grade, maybe.

[arclaud.livejournal.com]

This is not only offensive to gay people, this is offensive to humans. To even suggest that we are mere sex machines that only seek reproduction is absurd. Then to bag all men in the same stereotype, saying men would have sex with every attractive woman if they didn't have to sacrifice for society... that's just sick. If this person is actually like that, man, I would totally warn his wife. I mean, seriously, this guy has to be a repressed homosexual or polygamous person if he talks so much about how one must sacrifice and one must not fall to the temptation of the flesh. It sounds so much like he's not happy at all in his marriage. Hasn't he ever felt like he wasn't attracted to anyone else but his significant other? Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but once I fall in love I have no eyes for another person. To think of being intimate with someone else makes me sick, and whenever I hear about people cheating I can just explain it by thinking they must not really love their partners.

And then, to say all women are looking for the best suitor to have children with...gawd, this man has no life. It offends me to no end to be thrown into this role in which I'm exclusively in charge of successful reproduction. I guess that yes, I'm more attracted to men who are ambitious and care about who I am, but I do it only for me, I want someone like that to be happy, not to have a good father for my children.

I won't even start with the lie after lie after lie that he wrote about hoosexuals because it's so stupid it's not even worth it. His excuse for all of it is that we have no proof of homosexuals being born that way, of them having a marriage with someone, of them being good parents. So he can say whatever he wants.

This is pretty much his argument: 'As for what "studies have shown," I'll pit my "studies" against Mr. Herman's "studies" and see who can outvague the other.'

Right, that makes a lot of sense. Does this mean that since noone has any actual studies we should go with what you think is correct? No? Then it would have been nice if you actually linked to any of your sources or gave any proof of them first, since you're the one making the accusations. Your Holy Buy-bull doesn't count.

I'm completely disgusted.

"Love"rs?

[surrey-d.livejournal.com]

It strikes me that nowhere in his description of marriage does the concept of love appear. I resent my entire purpose being for the production of children, since that was never in my, or my partner's, plans.

This man must truly be suffering a loveless marriage, and is taking it stoically. Just don't take it out on others!

[leni-jess.livejournal.com]

Yes, a depressing read, which I slogged through determinedly.

One of the really irritating thing about this article was the way he skimmed gaily past matters on which there is lots of available data (though I can't point to any for this example, but I'm sure you could find it, Librarian!). Take his assertion that those who volunteer for the US military largely do so out of a sense of social duty, to protect society. Ha. Funny how many of them are black Southerners from poverty-stricken communities, with poor educations, but a desire to do work for which they will be paid, and get away from that limiting environment.

I long ago gave up reading every fiction of his because some things (Wyrms, Hart's Hope) turned me right off. I liked the original Ender short stories when they were first published in Analog - no doubt extracts from the novel-in-progress - but wasn't so struck on the novel as a whole. I disliked the sequels enough to give up.

His writing on writing always seems good. His stories about the Folk - a post-apocalyptic Mormon society - I didn't care for one bit. I long ago stopped reading anything of his where his principles drive the plot.

That said, a writer's beliefs do not affect the quality of his writing, even though they can make it unreadable by people to whom they give deep offence. Since I'm an unmarried childless female, I can now include myself in that group. Whee!

[khirsah.livejournal.com]

There is no consistency in what he says. I was a member of a 10-person writing "boot camp" (we started roundtable at 8 am and were finally set free to actually write at 6 pm, all locked together in a NYC apartment for a week) that he taught. My story was about gender and sexuality and featured a male/male marriage at the end. Another story by another student was about a married homosexual couple. He loved both stories. At this point, he had nothing to say about teh evil of homosexual marriage. He was very vocal if anything else went against his opinion, but on this point, he said nothing. Actually, he sounded very much in *favor* of it in his comments.

So, go figure. I wonder what crawled up his ass?

[briarsequinox.livejournal.com]

Bastard. How the heck does he think letting homosexuals marry people of the opposite gender is giving them full rights to marry?

[reapingfolk.livejournal.com]

Oh dear.

I really shouldn't have read that. Like nails across a blackboard, it is.

please read, is not as it first seems

[atleastyoutried.livejournal.com]

12 Reasons Why Gay Marriages Should Be Banned

1. Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control.

2. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people can't legally get married because the world needs more children.

3. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful, since Britney Spears' 55 hour marriage was a beautiful, long term, meaningful relationship.

5. Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all - women are property, blacks can't marry whites, and divorce is illegal.

6. Gay marriage should be decided by people not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of the minorities.

7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

10. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why single parents are forbidden to raise children.

11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven't adapted to cars or longer lifespans.

12. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a "seperate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Seperate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as seperate marriages for gays and lesbians will