Coming to Conclusions

[ivyblossom]

I love a good ending. In fact, I love a good ending that goes way past where it should. I want to know how everything turns out, every little thing. If it's a tenuous happy ending, I want to take it to totally happy. I want to see all the little domestic details that fall widely outside the plot and only serve to make me feel happy.

So what is a good ending? My gut instinct is not to trust my gut instinct, because I always want to know that everything is not only okay, but is fantastic and cosy and workaday, and that doesn't make a good ending at all. So to counter my own desire for these details, I tend to think the ending comes at the first hint that that future domestic bliss is possible.

For instance, let's say we have the movie Titanic, and the actual ending was that Leonardo Dicaprio didn't die. Say the ending actually was that Kate Winslet and Leonardo meet up again in the streets of Boston. Wouldn't the best ending for that scenario involve them seeing each other across a crowded street, and then move toward each other? How far do you go into the the happy ending? Should they kiss? Should we follow them to a local hotel? Should we get a flashforward to their joyous domestic bliss (maybe in the credits)?

To what degree is a good ending one that gives you a push off to imagine the rest of the story? I think I come at this from a fanfiction point of view, but I'm tempted to say that that's just what it should do, leave you with pieces to imagine. Good pieces. Not suspense pieces. So if you get enough details to know that they're going to be okay, and then if you're so inclined you can imagine the rest of the ups and downs and the bliss; that's what I'm picturing. As if this ending is just where this part of this story ends, and there's another story that comes later, but that's not one that fits into this book, or possibly into any book.

But then, is that a terribly unsatisfying ending? Is it a good or a bad thing if you have a conclusion that makes people say, awww, that's nice, but what happens next? What does he say? What does she do? How do they talk about these dramatic events? Do they tell other people about them? Do they have post traumatic stress and eventually break up because of the pressure? Do they have kids with weird nautical names? I'm fighting with my instincts here. As a person I would like to write a story forever, into the insipid details afterward, but my fear of doing this by accident makes me cut an ending too short, leaving too many questions unanswered.

I'm working on my graphic novel project, and I know roughly where it needs to end, but I'm not sure how far into the scene to go. I'm tempted by the tease of having it all end moments before a reunion, where you can guess what will happen from that point on, but you'd have to just guess at the details. Like if Leonardo Dicaprio spies Kate Winslet across a busy street, looking in a different direction, not knowing he's there, and him just smiling and about to leap forward. I'm debating about actually showing the reunion, though. Is it enough to just know that the star-crossed lovers are about to meet again against all odds? Or is that not enough?

Comments

[jaig.livejournal.com]

In that alternate!Titanic scenario, I'd write it something like this:

Rose and Jack arrive on separate rescue boats and spend hours looking for each other, and when it gets super-messy on the streets, their eyes meet.

There's the spark of ecstatic recognition, and then the credits roll.

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

Okay, so you just need the probability of the happy ending, and any more than that is overkill, right? I'm so fighting my urge to run into overkill territory.

[jaig.livejournal.com]

Personally, overkill means overkill. Continuing until the very "end" is another thing.

Overkill is the ending of Sorcerer's Stone, or the ending of Return of the King. Those were crazy. But you've got the nice endings where all the loose ends are tied up, like Neil Gaiman's Stardust. You've got a million storylines that suddenly come together in like, five pages.

It's really up to you, because if it's well-written, overkill doesn't exist. ;)

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

oooo it's so tempting! I'm just such a sucker for a cuddly ending. But I suspect it won't help the story, so I'll have to just write it for myself. :)

[jaig.livejournal.com]

That's what alternate endings are made for, love. :D

[mark356.livejournal.com]

Ditto. I love love love the cliche of that particular single glance! And that once glance is really all you need.

[jaig.livejournal.com]

Amen. I like it more when the story delivers enough to satisfy the readers/viewers, but still gives them room to imagine what else could have happened.

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

I like endings that leave it up to me to decide, but give me some ambiguity enough for hope. Like the ending of Casablanca, where Rick and Louis walk off at the beginning of a beautiful friendship, and I'm convinced that they ran off and started a new casino somewhere else and many happy adventures befell them. At the end of Gone With the Wind, Rhett has left and Scarlett is alone but she's going back to Tara and I am convinced that they found each other again, years later.

Nothing in the source can really support those beliefs, but the ending is more like a pause in that chapter, than a true ending.

If someone dies it's a bit harder. (unless Joss Whedon is involved. Or time travel!) But still, I like an ending that doesn't go into really small amounts of detail, but leaves me some room to plot out my own future for the characters and imagine them as happy as I want them to be.

Hence, fandom *G*

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

Yes, fandom. :) I worry that it clouds my vision a little. I just don't want to have an unsatifying ending. I've done that one too many times in fanfiction, so I don't trust my judgement.

[karadin.livejournal.com]

A bad ending is one that feels rushed, or doesn't fit in with your expectations based upon where the author has led you, for instance, if the hero is snatched from death in an implausible way. Some fics have horrible endings (character death, broken hearts) but they are good endings because they have meaning,

[isiscolo.livejournal.com]

For me it is enough to just know that the star-crossed lovers are about to meet again against all odds - because then I will close the book and imagine their meeting, and fantasize about what happens next, and maybe even write fanfiction about their reunion. An ending that is only hinted at spurs the reader's imagination and continues her involvement with the story; an ending that's all tied up with a bow leaves nothing but the glow of having read it, which fades.

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

That's just what I wanted to know, thanks. That was it: is it more satisfying to imagine that renunion, or is it annoying that I haven't written it, that's what I wondered. Do you think fanfiction people are more likely to find this kind of ending satisfying?

While I really do want to write the reunion, I know that it won't work and that it will lead to a petered out ending rather than an emotionally powerful one, so I'm on side with you. I just fear that my fanfiction sensibilities are influencing me. Though, when you put it this way, perhaps it's not a fanfiction thing at all.

[icyaurora8.livejournal.com]

you want to know something funny? i was JUST thinking about this last night actually, in regards to my story. i've got most of it planned out, i've just been slammed with school ending and work and havent had time to sit down and write any on it.

i personally like the 'you get the happy ending, but not too much detail' because i am fond of imagining where it goes from there. last night i decided that when my story ends, you will know the two are together, but how they deal with things from there on out is your call. i think much of a good story is how the characters get where they are, not how the author plans out the rest of their lives. in the sense of fanfiction, i've read one story that did that that i really liked (though i can't remember the name at the moment) but the rest of them i feel like its dragging on too much. the story i did like talked about everything from how the two characters got together, all the way until the day they died.

i really think being a good writer/author is knowing when to end. if you feel satisfied with what everything leads up to, then you shouldn't worry about what anyone else wants with it. after all, it is ultimately your story.

besides, i've always been told that if you do a good job creating the characters, they take on lives of their own. yes.... you do mould them to your whims (somewhat) but they will ultimately do what they were created to do. so if everything leads up to a reunion, but you don't go into detail, your characters are still going to 'act' out that part, whether or not you continue writing the story. the same thing goes for the reader who is imagining the ending.

does that make any sense at all? if it doesn't, i'm sorry. i just woke up about 8 minutes ago. lol.

[lemoncakes.livejournal.com]

The type of ending really depends on the style of the rest of the story. As far as love stories go, I'd definitely say less is more. My two favorites are "almost, almost, almost...?" and "almost, almost, almost... not." Leave me with what-ifs and why-nots, and I will giggle and cry and love it.

And since I'm bored at work, time for another alternate Titanic ending!

Leo, slouched against the wall in the harsh sunlight, too lost in thought to notice the crowd of people stampeding around him. Day turns to night, and the crowds gradually thin as people grow to accept that staring at the endless sea and searching through every hospital won't fill the new holes in their families. Streetlights flicker on, piercing through the heavy blackness, and a glint of something metallic catches his eye. He looks up from his knees and sees the Heart of the Ocean dangling from an impeccably-manicured hand, slender arm disappearing beneath an overlarge black cloak. The necklace slips from her hand, he smiles, and the camera fades.

[vinagrette.livejournal.com]

I think, personally, that just knowing is enough...Showing isn't necessary to have a satisfactory ending. I, myself, like endings where happiness isn't assured, anyway, so if it's got to be happiness then it's best to just imply or lead the viewer/reader into their own version of happy ending.

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

I really can't live with myself if there isn't some hint of future happiness at the end of this story. I guess this is what happens when you grow too fond of your characters. ;)

[argentus.livejournal.com]

You know, I've always thought that Cold Comfort Farm had the best and happiest little ending in the world. So fitting, sweet, and compact. I liked the little bit of mystery about some of the relationships and how they would go after the end of the story.

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

I'm not familiar with the story, sorry.

[beuchat.livejournal.com]

Personally I thought that Leo dying was a pretty nifty ending. Especially the part where Kate pries his frozen fingers from the plank. You see, I never really liked Titanic.

However, when it comes to stories I usually crave a happy ending, in as much as I actually have to see it happening. So Leo spying Kate across the street is not good enough, because maybe while crossing the street he gets run over by a car. Or she pops into the next store and miraculously disappears forever. I'd have to see them really meeting in order to be satisfied. If that's the end of the story I'm OK with it. I don't need to know how many children the had and if they got a dog or a cat. I especially don't need to know who died first, even if he or she came to live a hundred years, because that just depresses me. A nice little happy ending with lovers meeting and never parting is what I need, mostly because you don't get that too often in real live.

I hope that helped :)

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's the thing I'm worried about. I can't really show much in this ending, and I fear it will be unsatisfactory. I guess I'll play with it and see what I can do.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Just feel compelled to jump in and say--I think other millions of people agree with you that it was a nifty ending and I doubt the movie would have made as much money if he hadn't died. Hollywood honestly seems to be clueless that people love tragic love stories--Brokeback Mountain also being one, obviously. It definitely fills a need that even leaving an opening doesn't fix. With the Titanic just given the title I honestly think any ending where the guy doesn't die doesn't work. It's promised in the very name of the movie.

In a way I think that tragic ending gives just what you're saying, the idea of lovers meeting and never parting. It's the perfect story because it ends before anything can start to suck. The tragedy has all the "if only" endings built right into it. It kind of works the opposite of the stories where you have to really believe it won't work out and then it does. Because it seems like they'll work it out...and then they don't.

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm not actually recommending that it would be a better ending to Titanic, you understand. It was just the generic story I opted to use to illustrate a point. I'm fairly confident in the ending that I've chosen. It's nothing whatsoever like Titanic.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, I did get that--and realized after I posted that it did sound like I was having a problem with that idea. I think it just says something about the nature of romance in general that Leo dying was part of the appeal.

[metridious.livejournal.com]

I prefer implied happy endings. As long as we know the spark is there, and they will meet again, or even that they can meet again, we can insert our own happy scenarios. Like, if Leonardo sees Kate across the street, their eyes meet, he walks up to her and says "I can't believe you're still alive, my wildest dreams have come true, will you become my wife?" the happy ending is actually lost for me, not intensified. Maybe my happy ending doesn't involve marriage. Or maybe I just think it's too soon. Or any amount of other things that make that happy ending not *my* happy ending. I would rather it have left off at their eyes meeting, with everything still full of potential.

Another reason is that it kind of ruins the arc of the story for me. The drawn-out ending becomes an "and then...and then..."--sometimes it's better just to let the story end where it's meant to. If the point of the story is the lovers' hardships and trials but we know they'll be okay in the end...show us them being okay in the end. Don't show us the rest of their lives.

Of course there are exceptions. For every happy ending I want to keep subtle and implied, there's another where I'm bawling because omg they're getting married!!! But you're a wonderful writer and I'm sure you'll know when the story's finished.

"there are no happy endings, because nothing ever ends"

[cellia.livejournal.com]

Well, there's always the epilogue, if that isn't cheating.

Your question made me think a bit of romance novels (the most important and guarenteed thing about a US romance novel being: the happy ending). A happy ending with all ends tied up lends itself more to mental comfort food--which I don't think has to be a bad thing though. I'd much rather read an unpretentious book with a cosy ending than something equally badly/well done with painful one. But I might be oversensitive. I hate the feeling that the author is just fiddling with my emotions. Only a really good book can carry off a non-happy ending.

As for knowing where to end: I remember a fic I read many years ago which I loved, saved to my HD for re-reading etc etc. The author later edited it, improving it a lot, and one of the things she did was end the story sooner. Much tighter story, probably more powerful ending. But I couldn't help but be happy that I knew the original version and what really happened after. I know they say, "always leave them wanting more," but if people really love the characters and the story, they'll probably be happy to follow you further than strictly reasonable.

Re: "there are no happy endings, because nothing ever ends"

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I guess that's the line I'm trying to draw. I want the tight ending, and I can't be certain that other people will feel about my characters the way that I do. My fear is some of the experiences I had writing fanfiction; sometimes I would aim for the tight ending, thinking that the thing that happens directly afterward is so obvious, but then I would get feedback from people saying OMG what happens next?! So I've started to feel that maybe my idea of the tight (good) ending is too severe.

There's no way I would have a non-happy ending for this story. I mean, there's enough grief and sadness throughout the story, and the characters already give up a ton to get to the ending as it is, there's no reason to keep them suffering indefinitely at the end, I feel. It's more of a highnote ending than a truly happy ending. There are some things you just can't take back or heal with a handful of scenes, after all.

But yeah, you've expressed exactly my conflict. I guess the only way to cope with this is write it and see how it flies with people. Thanks for your comments! V. helpful!

[nightbluesprite.livejournal.com]

Have you ever read The Giver by Lois Lowry?

...I don't really have anything to say if you haven't...

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

It rings a bell, but I don't think I have!

[nightbluesprite.livejournal.com]

I would recommend it HUGELY - I read it in 7th grade, and it has really stayed with me. It's about a utopian society, but the point I was trying to make deals with the ambiguous ending. My entire class was divided about what the ending meant (in a huge way!) and I think this is a small part of what made it so wonderful - the ability of all of us to argue to our heart's content and never know what really happened. This kind of ending has its merits, is what I'm trying to say.