Graphic Novels, and Stress

[ivyblossom]

I've put the Graphic Novel project behind me for the most part, because the first draft is finished, and while I have some ideas for some middle-of-the-story-lag revision, I don't have complete ideas about it, so I'm leaving it alone. I've moved back to my non-graphic novel project now, the one that's just text, no pictures, and I'm trying to take some of what I learned with me. I took one look at the thing and thought, hmm, bones aren't bad, but rip rip rip, paste, slash, paste, it could be better. I've decided to focus only on bits of dialogue and descriptions of the action, and nothing else. So far I still understand that it's an outline and it's relatively painless to look at something and decide that I don't like it, or that it needs to move. So far so good.

But in the meantime boniblithe sent me some manga and that's given me some things to think about. Before the manga arrived, my only real experiences with graphic novels were Maus and a tiny bit of Sandman (thanks aldiara! And yes, you WILL get them back!). Reading the manga (I really like Death Note) showed me some things.

They're so FAST. I mean I read them fast. Go go go go go what happens next? It's really interesting to experience just glancing at the pictures and get what I need to know. I'm impressed by that process. I'm curious to see if the thing I wrote will work in this format; it was an experiment, and I'm happy that it's a collaborative one, because I have no idea if I wrote something that would work like this. But I trust that my collaborator can tell me what needs fixing. While working on it I went on the assumption that images are powerful and there's no such thing as relying on the artist too much, but given how much time I spent looking at each picture, I wonder.

But then, I wonder if the joy of a graphic novel is in multiple readings. Maybe the first time through you just burn through it to see what happens, and then you can go back and really explore the images and spend time with the whole thing? I don't know what the process is.

Am I making stuff up again? If you like graphic novels, tell me: do you run through them fast? Do you reread them?

In other news: the house purchase thing has me pretty overwhelmed. I think all the work is done, I'm just waiting to hear from my lawyer, but the whole thing is more stressful in ways I wouldn't have imagined. The idea of packing stresses me out. The idea of the move stresses me out. The paperwork stresses me out. Waiting for the call stresses me out. Worrying that I've missed something stresses me out.

People constantly asking me if I'm excited, and waiting for me to squeal and jump up and down; that too stresses me out.

There's just no pleasing some people, eh?

Comments

[carta.livejournal.com]

I tend to burn through manga on the first read - maybe it's because it's so visual? There are less words on the page? I have no idea, but that first read is super quick. The second read (and if I liked the title, the reads after that and after that) are much slower, and I catch more. I see the little jokes in the background, or the foreshadowing, or just the beauty of some of the art.

I have read FAKE probably five times now, and loved it more with each reading. Descendants of Darkness, also wonderful. Gravitation? Great to begin with, but I got tired of it around volume 7. I read fan scanlations of Deathnote prior to buying the print manga, and yes - it is wonderful stuff.

What else did Miz Boni send you? I am intrigued!

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

She sent Gravitation and Death Note, and another I haven't started yet. Gravitation I did not like. I didn't like either of the main characters. Death Note I liked immediately. Don't know about the other one yet, obviously.

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

I sent her Gravitation. I can't tell you what she said about Yuki, because you know I love him *g* I didn't send DoD, because I wanted some good examples of plotting. LOL

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

Which one is Yuki again?

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

the novelist

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

OH. Yes of course. Got it.

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

"The other one" is Saiyuki.

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

Oh, sorry about the Gravitation thing. My view may have been skewed by the fact that it took me until nearly the end of volume 1 (all that I have) to understand how to read a page.

[carta.livejournal.com]

Oh, no big. I have issues with Gravitation that trip me up sometimes, and the soap opera got OLD fairly quickly.

But! Yuki!

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

There's just something about an angsty character, isn't there. I read and try to learn. I'm rebuilding another story right now, and actually seeing all those new characters gave me lots to think about. Secrets! Angst! Issues! So tempting.

[whiterecluse.livejournal.com]

I do re-read graphic novels, but only the novels with big, detailed, beautifully-composed images (i.e. the manga Mars). At first, as you said, I do read quickly and focus on the text so I get the story under my belt, then I re-read and linger on the art.
I tend to not like the novels with small, cramped panels (i.e. the manga Nausicaa) because I feel the awkward composition detracts from my enjoyment of either story or art; it's like they cancel each other out. That type of novel takes me a long time to read because I keep getting distracted by one or the other.

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

Interesting! So complicated, these things. Thanks for your input. I have no say over composition and whatnot, I'll just trust the artist on that part. And I defnitely trust her. In a way I'm glad I didn't read the manga first; I'm not sure I would be able to start. So many things to consider! It's too ambitious a project, in retrospect.

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

I definitely whip through a new manga book quickly, reading the words and glancing only briefly at the pictures. And then I read it again, savoring both, since I usually have to wait to get the next one when it comes out.

Which is why the artistic part of it becomes so important - the artist can lead your eye by the way the panels are drawn and positioned, can direct you in certain ways, ensure you don't miss things. telophase has an excellent series of links and essays she's written herself handily indexed in this post (http://telophase.livejournal.com/113219.html) (this alone should give away the fact that she's also a librarian).

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

She is? I didn't know that!

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

When I send you these paint booklets I will also send you a copy of the manga book that she and rachelmanija did. Then you can admire her art and Rach's plotting how much of teh gay sex can be squeezed into a panel.

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

LOL! Awesome! I feel that I have let you down by including no actually sex in the graphic novel script. Though perhaps the artist will throw some in for fun. I wouldn't put it past her.

this is suiichi with pink hair

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

That's what fanfic (and doujinshi) are for :)

[telophase.livejournal.com]

I iz a stealth librarian muahahahahahaaaa!

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

I admire stealth in a woman. *admires*

[cacklebang.livejournal.com]

Manga tends to be a very different reading experience than American comics. The panels are deliberately arranged for a smooth and natural reading, with more of an emphasis on a rhythm in the storytelling- It's almost more of a design thing than a story thing sometimes. (Keep in mind that manga is most likely meant to be read faster, at least depending on what series you're reading.)

I tend to buzz through a volume of something in a store and if I like what I've glanced over, then I'll buy it. The mark of a good book (graphic novel or literature) is how much I'll reread it.

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

That seems like a good rule. I'm starting to get a sense of that. Very different sort of reading experience, though of course you can always read a book very fast. But I feel like maybe...you spend more time in the book world, at least the first time around. So I guess a graphic novel gives you the option of going back...if you want to spend more time in the book world.

I'm just making stuff up here.

And I don't know much about American comics, admitedly. The only comic booksI've ever read are Archie.

[karadin.livejournal.com]

Ah, anything that's good, manga or novel, is better on a second read, with magna I read through first for story, and then go back to linger on the art.

I am working on a manga of my own, first try since doing comics oh, about ten years ago, I like the japanese style because of the linework and cinematic quality, I could never really do the american comic-book style of heavy lines and grids. An interesting note on what the japanese (and chinese) think of american comics:

'we don't want to see an image of Superman preparing to jump through the window, then telling us he is going to jump through the window, then an image of him landing on the other side of the window'

Perhaps because audiences are so media savvy, and used to jump cuts, graphic novels go faster?

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

Perhaps! I know exactly nothing about art, so I can only report feelings. I'm glad there is lingering on the art as part of the process. I'm actually intimidated by the sheer scope of the project from the artist's perspective (only knowing how much I left to her, how much is in her hands, surely the bulk of it), so I'm glad to hear that people linger on the art. It takes so much longer! *feels guilt*

Okay, my overwhelm is bleeding into every other aspect of my life.

[vampiresetsuna.livejournal.com]

Oooh. I reccomend Rurouni Kenshin. It's my drug comic of choice. Beautifully written, it's like, the pictures arn't just illustrations of the dialoge and action, but you can read the expressions on their faces and thoughts, all of these things that are said, but not with words.

There are also several genre's of mangas that are slashy; most comics written for women are, though not as many of those have been translated yet. :)

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

I haven't read Kenshin yet, but I did watch the director's cut OVA from Netflix after seeing a couple of fanvids (ali_wildgoose made a good one, Ivy) and it's certainly tragically beautiful and full of angst. But then I heard the anime series was much different, so I didn't give the manga a try.

[vampiresetsuna.livejournal.com]

Ooh, definately. The OVA's are beautiful; the story of Kenshin and Tomoe is such angst, but very pretty angst, nonetheless. They're in a very different style from the regular anime series (which is sometimes cute, but totally lacks the depth of either the OVAs or the manga), and are more similiar to the manga, but still very different too. O.O Weird how the same storyline can look so different...

[manzai.livejournal.com]

Ah. I like Blade of the Immortal, and read it as soon as it comes out (in English, that is). The artwork's beautiful; I read it quickly, drinking up the story as fast as I can, and then go back and study the artwork, trying to pick up any other subtle nuances. My icon's Hyakurin, one of the main characters in the story.

And wow, don't stress so much about the house! Your lawyer would have called you for SURE if you hadn't crossed all your Ts and dotted your Is, you know. She/he wants you to be successful and happy, because a happy you means (a) you'll definintely pay on time and (b) you'll use her/him again, yes? Of course yes! ^_^

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's the kind of stress that creeps up on you without noticing it. I mostly noticed it today because my supervisor noted that I seemed frustrated with the project I'm working on, and then my stomach gave out. My stomach is always the first thing to go.

The spots where my wisdom teeth used to be are also hurting, which indicates to me that I've probably been clenching my teeth all day.

Clearly I need to spend more time in manga land. :) Thanks for the recs.

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

Let me know when you have painting scheduled. I'm becoming quite a pro.

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

I'll bet! I'll definitely be calling. Eventually. When I sort out what colours things should be. The paint books will surely help. ;)

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

Just remember that painting is EVIL. Taping is important. And it helps if you don't care too much about getting paint on the floor.

[applekid.livejournal.com]

My two absolute favorite manga, which I can get for you if you like:

Monster (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1591166411/sr=1-1/qid=1153883921/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0160826-5717750?ie=UTF8&s=books)

Blame! (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0008FPIMW/ref=pd_sim_b_2/102-0160826-5717750?ie=UTF8)

And a great sampling from all different genres from porn to ghost stories is available here for download via BitTorrent:

kotonoha's oneshots (http://kotonoha.monkey-pirate.com/one-shots/?PHPSESSID=186c7924f025b140f40a43bb1096dd31)

All of these are a great, high quality way to get used to reading manga-style storytelling. Just remember to go right to left. ;)

Honestly, a lot of the stuff that gets translated here is just yucky fanservicey garbage for teenagers. The boy/boy stuff tends to be some of the worst available, too (Gravitation and Fake both give me stomach cramps), so maybe I can find you some good fan-translated shorts to read... hmm...

[applekid.livejournal.com]

i have some zips to send you, 11 megs worth. can your regular addy hold them, or shall i send them to your gmail?

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

My regular addy can totally hold them. :) YAYS!

[applekid.livejournal.com]

oops... that blame link goes to the wrong thing, i meant for it to go to the manga (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1595328343/sr=8-1/qid=1153889707/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0160826-5717750?ie=UTF8).

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

Wow, of course the art is all stunning. I should get some intense-art manga, just in case. *loves on*

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

Saiyuki is pretty intense on the art. Minekura is well known for drawing angular, pretty boys, and making them suffer. I'll point you to some artbook scans here (http://impression.jahannam.net/) (note the lovely Yuki and pink-haired Suiichi at the top). Tokyo Babylon is also quite pretty.

Angel Sanctuary has great art too, but the plotlines are on crack. CRACK. You can see artbook scans at the same link above.

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

OK, don't look at the Saiyuki scans there, as she has apparently gotten rid of all the good ones. But the Angel Sanctuary are still there.

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

OMG, is that Monster zip available for sending to people not!Ivy? I keep hearing such good things. And it has doctors in it! Which is perfect for Ivy! LOL

[applekid.livejournal.com]

sure, if i can figure out how to get it to ivy in the first place! :) after looking at the folder, Monster is like 600 megs total. i don't have anywhere to upload files that large. i wonder if any of the free fileshare sites will take it? i'll look around...

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

yousendit.com?

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

YouSendIt will take up to a GB.

[ivyblossom.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I'll ever entirely understand why I have so many health professionals in my stories.

[aldiara.livejournal.com]

No rush about the Sandman. I was mostly glad it wasn't an extra thing I had to pack ;)

I haven't read a whole lot of manga, but funnily enough I find that I actually tend to read graphic novels more slowly. Usually I'll look at what's happening, then read the text, then look at the panels again, possibly repeating that a few times. I spend a lot of time looking at the art and get an absurd amount of pleasure out of finding little things in the background that you don't notice at first. Maybe it's because I used to do a lot of artwork myself, but it wouldn't feel right to me to just breeze through it, it feels almost disrespectful towards the artists. It will also depend on what kind of artwork it is - if it's something I really like, I spend even longer at it. It was funny when alsha was reading my Sandman stuff, because she didn't have much experience reading graphic stuff, so she actually tended to forget to look at the panels and I'd get a heart attack and go, "Noooooo! Must look at the ART!" lol

Oh, and I reread that stuff. A whole lot.

[snowqueenofhoth.livejournal.com]

Heh, I actually really liked Gravitation, although it is ridiculously silly and repetative, and also insane. But I'm a Ranma 1/2 fan, too, so what can I say? Lovelovelove Sandman. But I find reading graphic novels and manga to be very different. I must say, though, I'm always surprised at how slowly I read both. I expect to zip through them faster because there are less words, more pictures, etc, but I end up slowing down to really take in the art, and in the end, I think that it takes me about the same time to read manga and graphic novels as it does to read regular novelsl. When it's just words, I can zip along. Trying to integrate words and pictures takes more concentration for me somehow. It's really a different art form, and I enjoy reading manga and graphic novels in an entirely different way than novels. Words and art paint a picture and tell a story in different ways; I honestly think that words TELL you what characters think and feel and what's going on. With pictures, it often leaves more up to the reader/viewer. You need to do more work yourself, need to spend time looking at it, figuring things out. Words and art just have separate functions. I guess I'm just the type of person who likes to really look at the art and get more of the story from it, so when it's there, I take a long time.

After all, I always did love those picture books when I was a kid...

Did anyone else have books that were just art? No words at all, and you were supposed to tell the story? My mom used to have me sit on her lap and come up with a different story for the same books over and over. I loved it!

[aldiara.livejournal.com]

*points* Huh, I think I just found my long-lost twin. I loved those art-only books!

[phedredemorire.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to wish you a HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

Also: Hope the house purchasing has gone through as smoothly as you could wish for. Enjoy your new place!

[ninja-tech.livejournal.com]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY! I don't know if you'll see this, but just for the record. *grin* Cheers! *raises glass*

[prettyveela.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to come over and say happy belated, hope it was a good one. :)